Boat Tax Surfaces Again At Fiscal Court Meeting

[kdfwr911]

Undocumented boats and unpaid property taxes on those boats surfaced again during Monday night’s Russell County Fiscal Court meeting. The issue came to light last October when the Fiscal Court first discussed the possibility of generating additional revenue through the enforcement of “personal property taxes on watercraft in Russell County.”

Last October, and again Monday night, the Fiscal Court discussed a state law which allows counties to collect property taxes on houseboats and other watercraft which are docked, or stored, locally for more than 60 days.

The issue was brought before the Court during Monday night’s meeting by Leland True, a boat owner and President of the Clifty Creek Dock Owner’s Association. True wants the law enforced.

Some magistrates again expressed concern that enforcement of the tax would encourage boat owners to re-locate to a dock or marina outside of Russell County, and thus, be detrimental to local tourism. But all Magistrates voiced support for “uniform enforcement of the state law, jointly, with other counties surrounding Lake Cumberland.

According to public records, there are less than 200 boats documented on “property tax records” in Russell County. These documented boats generate annual tax revenues to the county government of approximately $20,000 and approximately $60,000 to the local school district. Those figures would increase by hundreds-of-thousands of dollars if the state law was enforced.

County Attorney Kevin Shearer explained the Fiscal Court could choose to pursue legal action to obtain the list of boat owners who rent slips at local marinas but are not paying “property taxes” on their vessels.

After several minutes of discussion, the Fiscal Court voted unanimously in support of County Judge Executive Gary Robertson inviting representatives of the state’s Department of Revenue, Attorney General’s office and Department of Fish & Wildlife to the February Fiscal Court meeting to further discuss the matter and in hopes of resolving who, or what agency is responsible for enforcing the “boat property tax law.”

http://lakercountry.com/2012/01/09/boat ... l-court-me...

[E_]

I pay my share, not sure why some think they can come to the lake and the resources around it that provide roads, EMTs, etc. to it but don't think they should pull their weight. All the counties should meet together and decide to enforce this. THEN it would not matter about worrying boats would go to one or the other.

[re3too]

What E said. Even when we lived in OH, our boat, which was in the water year round, was registered in KY and we paid the taxes. Pay to play, IMHO>

[Lock5]

I pay taxes on mine every year, I think this selective law enforcement is just outrageous. So if I understand this right the council can determine what tax laws to enforce and what one to ignore? Who in the He LL gave them this power? It's stupid sh!t like this why we have to create new laws, enforce the laws that are on the books already.

[Islander_212]

There are way too many taxes right now. They should not be taxing these items... Most of us are paying 50% of our income on taxes. Between all the income, payroll, property, sales, excise and on and on and on... It is out of control... http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp-015.html

[re3too]

I hear ya Islander but.......I think the thing that raises alot of hackles is that since these taxes DO exist, they should be paid by all fairly. Getting rid of taxes is a whole separate issue. JMHO!

[Islander_212]

I hear ya Islander but.......I think the thing that raises alot of hackles is that since these taxes DO exist, they should be paid by all fairly. Getting rid of taxes is a whole separate issue. JMHO!

Oh no you didn't... say their fair share!!! When I go to the lake and pay for all things I pay for they are getting plenty. I pay for storage for my boat to a property owner who pays a lot of taxes I bet. How much should we give them... all of it? My question is... what are property taxes used for?

[Lock5]

If the tax is unnessasary then do away with it,................ for everyone. It's the selective enforcement that I have a difficult time with. Since when do the local councils get to decide what laws to enforce or not enforce?

[E_]

+1 to lock


Islander all we are saying is the rest of us are paying it (and I guess you too are) so if we pay it everyone else needs to. It should be all or nothing otherwise some other a-hole is getting a free ride on your back.

[Islander_212]

+1 to lock


Islander all we are saying is the rest of us are paying it (and I guess you too are) so if we pay it everyone else needs to. It should be all or nothing otherwise some other a-hole is getting a free ride on your back.

Oh I understand... None of us should be paying it. If we are we should pay it where we live... I doubt a HB owner at SD is getting a free ride. They pay a lot of taxes everytime they are down and when they pay their slip fees, etc.

[E_]

There are 20 paying all those fees and the taxes... All or none.

[katie]

If they charged $5 to get on the lake or sell you a seasonal "state pass", that would cover a whole lot of the costs...
Indiana gets you each year when you renew your tags. Then any state owned waterways are considered part of the state park system. Pay yearly to get in any state park or waterway, or pay each time you go in. If you ask me, it should be paid for by the ones that use it.

[kdfwr911]

The majority of the taxes people pay when they come to the lake goes to the state coffers, not the local level. Yes, if you rent a storage for your boat, the storage owner in turn pays some amount of property taxes at the local level. But look at the amount of desperately needed revenue the locals are loosing. If the storage owner has 100 units rented, and the average value of those 100 boats are $25k each. That = 2.5 million in value vs whatever the value of the storage property is for personal property tax purposes. Even if the value of the storage property is 500k, it's still a HUGE lose of revenue for them to even consider it that way.

I know how most of the small Lake Cumberland area communities struggle to provide services. And while you may not ever utilize those services personally, a good many of the tourists visiting the area do utilize them. So when you look at it from the big picture, it isn't the local citizens responsibility to provide all these services to tourists free. And the local communities can't provide the level of services to the tourists that should be there simply because they don't have enough tax base to support it. Fire protection on the lake is practically non existant. There should be a huge fire boat at every dock equipped to handle anything they may be faced with. But there isn't because there is no money in the local coffers for it, and the attitude of most local residents is that it isn't their responsibility to provide it for tourists. The flip side of that is that if tourists pay those local property taxes on their boats, then they should see improved public services geared toward improving public protection on the lake. If the counties are going to collect all this tax money from non residents, then they should also spend some of it on them by buying fire boats and improving all these backwoods launching ramps etc.

[E_]

to that AND to what Katie said.

[Islander_212]

I agree with you kdfwr911. That being said... Is the lake not a multi-state resource? By that, should there not be funds coming in from other sources? Those bodies of water are certainly a nightmare when it comes to jurisdiction... I mean good old LC is a TVA body of water, with USACE also involved. It is Federally owned, you have private businesses occupying Federal Lands, State LE and go some extent some Federal LE when the coast guard is there every other year or whenever... What gets me is some of these counties have spent a great deal of money on things, that perhaps, were not necessary... A lot of these allegedly (poor counties) have a grand palace of a courthouse that they have just built. Russell and Casey to name just a couple in the area. I am not sure the tourists have that large a drain on they systems. Sure a few do end up at the hospital, but that just be a handful each year, they certainly hardly, if ever visit the library, nor the extension service and never utilize the schools, so... it is a tough spot to be in for sure. Perhaps a lowered rate for the out of region owners based on their utilization of services that could easilly be quantified... Also, think about how much worse off the area would be without the tourism the lake generates...

[kdfwr911]

I agree with you kdfwr911. That being said... Is the lake not a multi-state resource? By that, should there not be funds coming in from other sources? Those bodies of water are certainly a nightmare when it comes to jurisdiction... I mean good old LC is a TVA body of water, with USACE also involved. It is Federally owned, you have private businesses occupying Federal Lands, State LE and go some extent some Federal LE when the coast guard is there every other year or whenever... What gets me is some of these counties have spent a great deal of money on things, that perhaps, were not necessary... A lot of these allegedly (poor counties) have a grand palace of a courthouse that they have just built. Russell and Casey to name just a couple in the area. I am not sure the tourists have that large a drain on they systems. Sure a few do end up at the hospital, but that just be a handful each year, they certainly hardly, if ever visit the library, nor the extension service and never utilize the schools, so... it is a tough spot to be in for sure. Perhaps a lowered rate for the out of region owners based on their utilization of services that could easilly be quantified... Also, think about how much worse off the area would be without the tourism the lake generates...

I don't disagree with you except that there is probably more stress on local resources than you have allowed for. When a tourist has a fender bender or a petty theft or locks their keys in the car at the lake, that all requires local resources. And you'd probably be surprised at how many tourists actually get the opportunity to vist our local emergency rooms every weekend during the summer. It varies from a few to several everyweekend plus all those mid week cuts and scrapes. Some drive themselves, others need an ambulance of helicopter. Other less fortunate ones need 30-40 people dragging for them for a week or two at a time, and many times those resources are drawn from the LC region rather than just countywide. But it's well worth what drain they put on the local resources to get what they contribute to the local economies and state tax bases. But the key word there is "state tax base". Very little of that comes back to the counties to support the services that the tourists want and need......such as fire/rescue equipment and nice launching ramps with secure and lighted parking etc.

[kdfwr911]

And lest I forget to mention that the biggest thing the LC counties could do for themselves to generate large amounts of local tax revenue would be to go wet or at least moist and impose a local tax on it (which they can legally do). But that's another discussion altogether.......

[Islander_212]

And lest I forget to mention that the biggest thing the LC counties could do for themselves to generate large amounts of local tax revenue would be to go wet or at least moist and impose a local tax on it (which they can legally do). But that's another discussion altogether.......

You are absolutely right on that to. I would much rather purchase that when I arrive vs. hauling it all down. My liquor bill is larger than my food bill on most lake weekends! Now I share before you all deem me to be an alky!!! Plus I don't eat at the lake... much!

[Islander_212]

I don't disagree with you except that there is probably more stress on local resources than you have allowed for. When a tourist has a fender bender or a petty theft or locks their keys in the car at the lake, that all requires local resources. And you'd probably be surprised at how many tourists actually get the opportunity to vist our local emergency rooms every weekend during the summer. It varies from a few to several everyweekend plus all those mid week cuts and scrapes. Some drive themselves, others need an ambulance of helicopter. Other less fortunate ones need 30-40 people dragging for them for a week or two at a time, and many times those resources are drawn from the LC region rather than just countywide. But it's well worth what drain they put on the local resources to get what they contribute to the local economies and state tax bases. But the key word there is "state tax base". Very little of that comes back to the counties to support the services that the tourists want and need......such as fire/rescue equipment and nice launching ramps with secure and lighted parking etc.

True, by the time the Feds, State and others get through with us we have hardly any heart left for the locals. I think the consitution originally was setup so that it was inverted to what it is now... Local, gets the biggest piece of us, state next and federal none, but the crooks, I mean politicians in DC see it another way. They have planes to fly, vacations to take and parties to go to on our behalf!

[re3too]

Live in Pulaski, dock at Conley (Wayne Co), dry store in Clinton. Register and pay taxes in Clinton 'cause 1) boat may be in driveway in Pulaski 2 days tops 2) why pay higher taxes in Wayne 3) boat probably actually spends more time in Clinton in storage. Sheesh!

[DMS]

I pay taxes on mine every year, I think this selective law enforcement is just outrageous. So if I understand this right the council can determine what tax laws to enforce and what one to ignore? Who in the He LL gave them this power? It's stupid sh!t like this why we have to create new laws, enforce the laws that are on the books already.

I agree. Hell they wont let us, ie Russell Co, sell legal booze...taxation one way or the other.

"We only cheat drunks, tourist and drunk tourist"

[E_]

I live in Harrison County, Boat in all the lake counties but have mine through Pulaksi since their rates are MUCH lower than my county that doesn't have a body of water that it could be launched on and since that is the county I pass through the most when I head to the lake.