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Being the only Democrate to post here so far I am going don my flame suit and go for it! As E said, play nice now!

One thing that really bothers me about McCain's platform is his plan to buy all the bad mortgages and renegotiate them (At a lower value, as he stated in the 2nd debate) and allow those people to stay in their homes. So what happens to the market, the home prices fall even further because now it is flooded with low value mortgaged homes that these people are going to dump on the market the first opportunity that the market shows signs of recovery.

Here are people like "us" who did not borrow ourselves into a hole like the rest of those stupid people and now we are going to have to suffer with our home values dropping even further! Why not do something about the banks that are selling those foreclosed homes on the market for nothing and force them to raise the value and let the people who "spent" beyond their means sleep in the bed they made.

The bottom line is there is CRAP on both sides!

Your not the only Demo here, don't worry. The fact the a republican talks at all at this point is humorous. But it is the fun part we call debating.

DJ

P.S. John if we give Bush credit for the 900 point gain and lower gas prices thats fine, then we can also credit him for the other things that have been complete chit the past 8 years. Nothwithstanding, the hatred around the entire world for our imperialistic regime that he has tried to enforce.

Thanks DJ, good to see you here and thanks for kicking in! I guess it's just you me and Saturday Night Live!

You are right that it is crap on both sides. Got the suit on for a few.

We all know the history as mentioned on other threads. Unfortunately for your party, Carter and the CRA of 1977 and Clinton in 1995 are what caused the housing crisis, IMO.

This caused the over inflated home prices, which made all of us believe our homes were worth more than what they are. The home value decline that we have seen over the past year or so is actually what our homes SHOULD be worth, had the subprime loans not been afforded. The subprime loans caused the overinflated home value/prices. Now we all think our homes are worth 10-20 percent more than what they would have been if the subprime loan demand for purchases had not occurred.

I am not for bailouts, as I am for personal and fiscal responsibility, (hence Conservative and not Republican at this point in time, since the Republicans decided to spend like Dems and screw that up) but something has to be done.

2005 and 2007 were bad times for Republicans as they wanted reform, but Frank and his boys said everything was ok. We all know that was BS, and Frank still sits by his statements. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz-d6WPTXa8

SOMETHING has to be done, from both sides. If the credit market seizes, good people like you and me will suffer even if we have good credit and has been fiscally responsible. Banks will quit lending to us even with very high credit scores.

It all comes back to what I have always said. There is no penalties for piss poor decision making. Whether it is a personal or financial level, there is always an excuse and a group that is willing to pass the buck and "lend a hand". Both sides are guilty. Corporate vs. Individual.

I have no doubt that the policies they put in place contributed to (or caused) it but I doubt that there was an intent to have this outcome. I think the reforms were a decent idea at the time until someone found a way to use it to their advantage and to the disadvantage of the market. Hence to mess we are in now.

It doens't matter what reforms are put in place there will be one of two results, the rules will be so strict that we won't be able to grow the economy (Not good) or there will be more loopholes that will put us in the same place we are X amount of years from now! In the end I think all these people are trying to do the right thing and not deliberately trying to screw us (Republican and Democrate) and in the end there will be problems and we will have someone to point the finger at.

Why will there always be issues you ask? Because we are a smart, resourceful and ambitious country and we will always find a way to screw with the rules for our benefit or percieved benefit. I don't care who is making the rules!

Well I agree with both.

KYC, I agree with you totally about the Mortgage Stuff 100% but I think BO also was for purchasing the mortgages.

Shocka, I agree with you as well about the start and lead up to the mortgage crisis. However I really blame the banks for not having one bit of ethics and sense and allowing it to happen. History repeats itself and it did.

THanks for brining a second perspective in guys!

shocka43 wrote:You are right that it is crap on both sides. Got the suit on for a few.


It all comes back to what I have always said. There is no penalties for piss poor decision making. Whether it is a personal or financial level, there is always an excuse and a group that is willing to pass the buck and "lend a hand". Both sides are guilty. Corporate vs. Individual.

Dead on shocka43, I'm old enough to remember that when you made a bad decision, you lived with it and if you were smart enough, you fixed it! Blaming nobody but yourself. I get sick to my stomach knowing how much of my (our) tax dollars are going for crap it was NEVER intended for. Who made these stupid decisions, both Dems and Repubs!


count me on the fence, still undecided, why, neither party has whispered the right words to me yet.... gonna cost no matter which way you go...

KYCanuck wrote:I have no doubt that the policies they put in place contributed to (or caused) it but I doubt that there was an intent to have this outcome. I think the reforms were a decent idea at the time until someone found a way to use it to their advantage and to the disadvantage of the market. Hence to mess we are in now.

Intent was to give loans to those that couldn't get one like me and you. The undesired consequences should have been apparent. If they were to the layman, then why weren't they to the geniuses that are running our country?

The American Dream isn't a dream if you don't have to earn it. 5 year ARM's, approvals for loans for crazy amounts, etc. got us to where we are. Banks were also under threat from the government to face penalties for not offering these outlandish loans. That's why they continued.

E_HILLMAN wrote:However I really blame the banks for not having one bit of ethics and sense and allowing it to happen. History repeats itself and it did.

You said ethics. lol. Policies put in place by people with no ethical standards, politicians, and greedy money whores managing those policies. Thats funny stuff right there.

I blame greed on all accounts.

1. Some Joe that has a combined income of 60k says, "Sure, I will take on a $200k+ home loan. Just because I can. I won't be able to afford it, but it will be cool."

2. Some lender that says, "Sure, I will take interest only payments for 5 years, make my coin, get the house back out of foreclosure, and be on my way with money in my pocket."

3. Some politician that says, "I am going to get socioeconomic class A the ability to get a loan, make sure I keep doing it, and I will get their vote next go around. Not to mention kickbacks from every other goof that is willing to get in."

E_HILLMAN wrote:THanks for brining a second perspective in guys!

Glad they stepped in E. It would be boring with just us.

Hey KYcanuk....Can we get the National Healthcare topic going before election. I think we did that elsewhere.

The subprime loans made homeowners out of renters. Unfortunately, not all renters know anything about home ownership.

What do you mean I have to pay property taxes, have homeowners insurance, pay utilities, maintain my property with paint and repairs, keep the yard looking nice?? I didn't have to do any of that when I rented. That stuff costs money. I have a mortgage to pay now, but wait, the government caused this, so they should bail me out. For many they are going to.

I say screw the bailout and let the renters become renters again!! Why should I pay my mortgage and the mortgages of all the idiots out there that made really bad decisions. But what do I know!!

JLA wrote:I say screw the bailout and let the renters become renters again!! Why should I pay my mortgage and the mortgages of all the idiots out there that made really bad decisions. But what do I know!!

I am definitely with you on this, and it has always been my mentality, but....

Letting them fix their own problem makes it hard for honest, hard working, American's if their screw ups cause the credit market to freeze...

Credit freezes, people quit buying, products quit selling, people loose jobs. It is a revolving door. The problem is that when the red flags were presented in 2005 and people wanted regulation to fix the eminent problem, a certain political party didn't want anything to do with the fix. Their hands were in all of the financial and political cookie jars that needed to be taken away in order for the problem to be taken care of three years ago. This may haven't been a whole hearted bipartisan screw up, but it definitely needs a bipartisan fix.

I try to point out some facts to try and support my arguments reference "fault", but there isn't any question that if it doesn't get fixed, no matter who is in office and no matter who controls Congress, we can consider ourselves screwed.